DALLAS — On June 30, Dan McDowell and Jake Kemp hosted their normal early-afternoon show on Dallas' sportsradio KTCK 1310-AM/96.7-FM The Ticket -- a standard, three-hour production of the show they'd come to call "The Hang Zone."
That day's effort included an interview with Ice Cube, as well as the daily "Why Today Doesn't Suck" segment that has historically rounded out their days.
It was also the last time McDowell and Kemp were on The Ticket's airwaves.
Things have changed rapidly in the weeks since.
McDowell and Kemp resigned from the station in mid-July, unable to reach a new contract agreement with their longtime employer.
Theirs was the latest in a string of high-profile exits from The Ticket in recent memory. In June, Texas Radio Hall of Fame inductee Norm Hitzges retired from his own longstanding post at the station. In 2020, Hitzges' fellow Texas Radio Hall of Famer and colleague Mike Rhyner, who helped found The Ticket, announced his own retirement from The Ticket -- only to come out of retirement two years later to join the ranks at upstart rival station 97.1-FM The Freak, a station whose own host roster is heavily populated with former Ticket personalities.
As for McDowell and Kemp, they began recording and publishing a new podcast called "The Dumb Zone" on July 20 after initially releasing a goodbye video to The Ticket on YouTube.
In the wake of that move, Cumulus -- The Ticket's parent company -- filed suit against McDowell and Kemp on Aug. 4, seeking an temporary restraining order to stop them from recording new episodes.
A judge this week denied that request.
Cumulus then refiled it.
Now, McDowell's and Kemp's attorneys have filed an official response to Cumulus' suit, saying that the company's allegations of anyone violating their contract agreement were false. The response to the Cumulus suit also revealed McDowell and Kemp have filed complaints against The Ticket with the National Labor Relations Board.
Cumulus this week told WFAA in a statement that they are "very disappointed that the actions of Mr. McDowell and Mr. Kemp have necessitated litigation."
For their part, McDowell and Kemp have maintained that their decision to leave The Ticket was made with the intention of trying something new, which led to the subsequently launch of their podcast.
"At least personally, I am not pissed at The Ticket," McDowell said in the pair's goodbye video last month, explaining their decision to leave for new opportunities. "I'm not mad at Cumulus... it's fine. That's their thing, their evaluation of the situation. And our evaluation of the situation is we felt like it was fine to move on, and they felt like it's fine to move on from us, and here we are."
Said Kemp in the same video: "I think the main thing is, what if we just want to try to do something different?"
On Friday, McDowell and Kemp agreed to sit down with WFAA on Friday for a video conversation about the ongoing legal dispute between them and Cumulus, and to share what's next for the pair as they venture out on their own.
This conversation was edited for clarity and length.
WFAA: Dan, when we were setting up this call, you mentioned that you are recording a podcast today. Is everything kind of going on business as usual, at least with the podcast and recording?
McDowell: Yeah, we don't really have a set schedule. And business as usual -- we don't know what that means right now. There's a lot of different things going on, as you're aware. But we're narcissists. So we need to get our voices out there. And as you've read, legally, our opinion is we're putting out something behind a paywall. We will not accept advertising. We are not trying to impact The Ticket negatively, in any way, shape or form. You have to add "shape or form." Right, Jake? ... Not just a shape. Yeah. Ryan, this is very important that you have "form." But yeah, there is no "business as usual." But we're planning on recording something today, and then just talking a little bit. Because we do have people behind a paywall [and] we want to give them a little something. And that's it.
WFAA: Were you caught off guard about the attention this has received from Ticket listeners?
Kemp: I just didn't realize that it was going to be as public as as it has been. So, it's hard. And I think in some ways, it's possibly been harder for me than Dan. If you want to call me a hero, you could. Just because I'm from here. So, I mean, I just wake up--
McDowell: Yeah, I haven't thought of that. People are just hitting you up from everywhere, right? My high school friends don't know what I'm doing.
Kemp: It's just 100-200 text messages every single day when I wake up of people just asking me, "What is happening with this?" It's hard, but I still fully believe that we made the right decision. And I believe in [McDowell], I believe in me, I believe in Kip and Bodie, the two dogs we have here. So we're just gonna roll that way.
McDowell: I was gonna just follow up because you had said something about balancing creating content and dealing with lawyers or whatever. The creating content part, to me, is what's really suffering because we're spending too much of our time talking to people about other stuff that we don't understand.
Kemp: People like you, [Ryan].
McDowell: Yeah, people like Ryan from WFAA! So it's... y'know, I mean, we're media darlings. I think that's pretty evident. Everybody knows that. So we're trying to keep our media friendships out there. So just the being able to... I mean, what's the last game I watched? I'm kind of looking forward to [Cowboys preseason game Saturday night], right? We get to watch a Cowboy game! A nice 4pm-er, so we can get to bed on time.
Kemp: I think his point is just that we're not putting a ton of time into the content right now. And sometimes that sucks. Because, for the two of us, that's all we used to do.
WFAA: What's it like doing the new podcast over the last few weeks? Has there been anything different? Or is it just the fact that there's all this stuff going on in the background that has kind of made it different more than anything?
Kemp: Yeah, I'd say that the latter thing that you mentioned actually affects the former quite a bit. Just the fact that there's all this other stuff going on. And instead of there being five of us, there's just two of us. And that has significantly impacted our ability to do what we think we can do.
McDowell: Yeah, I think [the podcast] sounded nothing like what we've done. [There's] nothing at all. We're just recording. We're not live broadcasting. So there's not that urgency... It's just a weird feeling. We're not doing so I don't think it sounds anything like what we've done before. I don't think it feels like it. Again, we wanted to just pop ourselves behind a paywall and keep talking, because we're narcissists. And we'll see. It's gotta get better, right? It's so low, low rent right now. It has to get better.
WFAA: Is podcasting specifically what you want to do longterm? Or are you just trying to get past this legal stuff in the interim?
McDowell: I think you kind of hit it there in the second one, too. I don't know... We don't know what we want to do long-term. We didn't know short-term! We thought we'd just pop ourselves behind a paywall, talk a little bit. And, y'know, get through into next year, and then kind of try and evaluate. Look, again, we didn't expect to be here. We clearly don't have a plan here. This is our short-term plan. Possibly. Everything is a possibility, right?
WFAA: Have you guys talked with anyone at The Ticket since leaving?
McDowell: We're great friends with a lot of those guys. So I've talked with, obviously, since the end, I've talked with each and every one of them, at some point, in some way. [I've] probably talked to Bob [Sturm] a little bit more because he's the guy I came into The Ticket with many years ago. The answer is yes.
Kemp: For me, it was probably Corby [Davidson] a little bit more. He's the one who sort of hired me when I was 17 or 18 years old. I think I get the sense that they don't really want to be [involved] -- because I wouldn't want to be involved in this either. I would just say, 'Go do your thing.'
McDowell: Look, I don't want to be involved in legal. I don't think we made this choice.
Kemp: The general response that I've received is, 'Love you guys, we're always going to be here for you. Do your thing.'
WFAA: Ultimately, with all the legal stuff going on, what is your plan moving forward?
McDowell: Our advisors have told us there is nothing wrong with what we are doing. Apparently, these clauses can be interpreted in different ways... So they're just saying, "Yeah, don't accept advertising. Stay behind a paywall. Do your talking. And, y'know, put out your low-rent product and keep being narcissists." So that's what I think we're doing right now. If you say nothing can stop us... a lot can stop us. We're very weak. We can be easily stopped. And it may all end tomorrow. Who knows?
Kemp: Yeah, and I just want to add that only a true narcissist uses the word narcissist three times in a 30-minute conversation, [don't] you think? But, no, everything could change every day. But our intention right now is to just keep doing stuff every couple days, three or four times a week, sometimes five times a week. And then we'll just go from there.